Me and You and a Dog Named Thomas Carlyle’s Crisis of Faith
Kind of a cheesy title, but I wanted people who run across it not to just go “Thomas who?” Let’s begin with the “me and you” part: In some of the comments to the previous Carlyle post, I noticed that certain responses suggested a distinction between “present-centered folks” vs. “hope folks.”
Present-Centered
On the one hand, the present centered people pointed out that all too often we don’t live in the moment. Instead, we’re preoccupied with stuff like what that jerk at work said to us yesterday, how we wish we still lived where we used to, how worried we are that this or that might or might not happen, etc. The idea seemed to be that if we spent more time living in the present, we’d be happier. The implication seemed to be that hope is one of those things that take us out of the moment.
Hopeful (or hopeless or vacillating between the two…)
On the other hand we’ve all heard things like: “Hope springs eternal…” “Where there’s life there’s hope” “Children are the hope of the future.” Where there’s the smoke of that many platitudes, there’s bound to be fire. Hope, indeed, has been viewed as an indispensable feature of inner life for a very long time. A factoid that I recall from grad school is that hopelessness is a feature of depression that’s particularly associated with suicide.
If you’re present centered, do you lack forward-looking concerns – for example, environmental issues and the kind of earth we’re leaving our children? If you’re hopeful or struggle with hopelessness, what’s involved with this beyond the question of whether or not this post will be followed by another one on Carlyle where I remember to actually quote him?
Present-Centered
On the one hand, the present centered people pointed out that all too often we don’t live in the moment. Instead, we’re preoccupied with stuff like what that jerk at work said to us yesterday, how we wish we still lived where we used to, how worried we are that this or that might or might not happen, etc. The idea seemed to be that if we spent more time living in the present, we’d be happier. The implication seemed to be that hope is one of those things that take us out of the moment.
Hopeful (or hopeless or vacillating between the two…)
On the other hand we’ve all heard things like: “Hope springs eternal…” “Where there’s life there’s hope” “Children are the hope of the future.” Where there’s the smoke of that many platitudes, there’s bound to be fire. Hope, indeed, has been viewed as an indispensable feature of inner life for a very long time. A factoid that I recall from grad school is that hopelessness is a feature of depression that’s particularly associated with suicide.
If you’re present centered, do you lack forward-looking concerns – for example, environmental issues and the kind of earth we’re leaving our children? If you’re hopeful or struggle with hopelessness, what’s involved with this beyond the question of whether or not this post will be followed by another one on Carlyle where I remember to actually quote him?
Posted by Paul at 4:17 PM Permalink
21 Comments:
LOL the title got my attention! :)
If one is present-centered the doing doesn't stop. Action is everything including things like environmental issues.
When do we want it? NOW
Hope now. Makes the now a better place to be . . .
I didn't suggest that being present centered would mean not acting. It would be like the Seinfeld episode:
Jerry: So what you were doing?
Elaine: Nuthin.
Jerry: No, really, I mean what did you do last night?
Elaine: Nuthin.
Jerry: You mean really nothing? You weren't... (I can't remember the whole bit, he goes through a list and she denies having done any of it...)
More what I was getting at would be: does present centeredness mean having no spiritual focus on futurity or ultimacy - making faith irrelevant?
OCEANSHAMAN: I'm following the feeling. But logically, anything that happens in anyone's mind can only happen in the present, including all present states of mind that dwell or focus on either the past or the future...
So sounds like maybe you'd make an exception for hope and/or faith and/or beliefs? - which people haven't yet attempted either to distinguish or assert that they're all one thing...
Further, I don't know that an exception is necessary, as the experience of hope, faith, and belief does not necessarily depend upon projection into either the past or the future as a means of enlivening the moment . . .
Finally, I don't know that hope, faith, and belief are fully distinguishable . . .
Bottom line: I know I don't know . . . which I've heard is the first step towards wisdom . . .
I spend huge amounts of my time re-evaluating the past, as one of my greatest assets. The older we get the more we are likely to do this. If I was 105 years old and not just 65, I would have even less use for Hope than I have now!
When I did "cold turkey" off heroin once I HAD to live in the moment. The idea of living in the next four days of misery when I could merely live in NOW was overwhelming ... know what I mean.
You have a fascinating blog ~ truly!
How come you're blogging with someone else and yet have a blogger portrait... how do you do that?
Have a great weekend!
Gleds
This is not to say that evaluation of our past cannot be helpful in guiding our thoughts, words, and actions in the present . . .
But, from experience, I can say that tai chi and sitting meditation have greatly improved my conscious contact with both the greater oneness of all that is and with each present moment . . .
I have to say that the moment works for me . . .
As to faith, hope, and belief - I've been able to distinguish them in a way that's true to my own experience and probably that of others; at least I hope so... And tend to believe it!
But isn't it the case that hope, to take the clearest example of the three, enlivens the present precisely by projecting into the future? And that likewise, hopelessness debilitates the present by projecting into the future?
On your second comment: At the same time that I'm looking at the significance of faith, hope, and the beliefs that people often associate with being hopeful, I agree that spending more time in the moment is of tremendous value - that we benefit by doing more of this - by living there, so to speak, more than dwelling in the past or future.
VINCENT: I wonder if one reason you may have a negative impression of "living in the now" is that there is, frankly, a lot of pretty glib stuff being churned out today as publishers cash in on celebrity and other easy to market, self-styled gurus.
That said, as Oceanshaman suggests, there are also very respected and venerable persons and traditions from around the world that advocate greater present centeredness in serious and substantial ways. Two books that really made an impression on me in this regard were Thich Nhat Hanh's The Miracle of Mindfulness and Seeking the Heart of Wisdom by Kornfield and... Goldstein?
Where you speak of spending a lot of time reevaluating the past:
Trying to be more present centered wouldn't preclude looking at the past to make sense of it and gain insight from it. I think certain stages of life may involve doing more of that than others. For example, as young adults most of us probably need to do some "processing" of our childhoods. And as you indicate, as we get older there's a tendency to look back on one's life as a whole.
Striving for greater present centeredness as I understand it mainly involves letting go of forms of dwelling on the past and thinking about the future that are non-productive - for example, repeatedly bemoaning or regretting something that happened in the past that nothing can be done about rather than assimilating it and moving on.
GLEDWOOD: Drugs as an obstacle vs. an aid to spiritual development would be a topic in itself, that's for sure. Safe to say that addiction is no help at all; glad to hear that it sounds like this is something you've been able to deal with successfully.
Not sure I understand your question about the blogger portrait or blogging with someone else? It's just me, myself and I... Thanks for coming by -
Yes. I agree . . .
As for beliefs, I don't trust consensus of opinion so I have a problem in believing things that don't make sense or that I haven't direct experience of.
Faith is more a feeling, I have a strong feeling of something and it's hard to describe except as a pattern which includes all of everything, present, past and future, If it's God then I am like a single one of his blood cells, ie I don't really matter as an individual but it's good to think that I will always be a part of him/her/it whatever happens to me or the human race. I'm not sure if this is pathological but it's what keeps me going.
LOL funny :)
Paul, I think that if one hopes one expects something...and thats where the disappointment comes.. if the expected outcome doesn't arrive. Its good to work on what you want...aim but don't worry on not hitting target. isn't that how we stay "Present-Centerd"? does that make any sense?
Now I'm reading a book, Images of Hope, by a Jesuit who works with the mentally ill and depressed. He defines hope as the knowledge and feeling that there is a way out of difficulty, and without this, people will do nothing because they have no sense of the possible.
I think you can have both hope and be present in the moment, just maybe not at the same time. The weird extremes of present-centeredness might be like Alzheimer's disease, and of hope might be a kind of pie-in-the-sky denial of what's actually taking place in the present.
OCEANSHAMAN: Maybe the direction we're headed with this is as per Crystal's comment that comes a few comments after yours, with both hope and present-centeredness having their place.
HAZZBUZZ: I don't remember sending you an advance copy of the book, lol... Some of what you say here touches on places I've headed. One of them is the relationship of love to hope. Too much for this discussion thread, but I think you're onto something.
KATHY: Makes perfect sense to me and it's an example of why probably the vast majority of us would benefit from increased present centeredness.
But if you look back at the post with the Carlyle excerpt, he's talking about Hope with a capital H...
CRYSTAL: I like your summary here and hadn't thought about it in quite that way before, i.e, in terms of the downside of extremes where you say:
"I think you can have both hope and be present in the moment, just maybe not at the same time. The weird extremes of present-centeredness might be like Alzheimer's disease, and of hope might be a kind of pie-in-the-sky denial of what's actually taking place in the present."
In daily life, you pretty much get what you expect to get. If you are hopeful and you think you will have a good day, then chances are you will have a good day. You will be looking for those things that make for a good day. If you think your day is going to be lousy, then chances are you will have a lousy day. You will be on the look out for those things that make for a lousy day and you will say to yourself, "See! I just knew I was going to have a lousy day."
Not every outcome is determined by one's attitude, of course. But attitude can have a tremendous impact.
To me, hope is closely linked to a positive attitude and to determination as well. If you are without hope, you are not likely to be determined to find a solution to a problem you might be facing. But if you are hopeful that a solution exists, then you will be looking for it.
Hopelessness can blind a person to opportunities when they present themselves and to possibilities that may exist and need to be explored.
One sidenote: First, I'm sure that's true - that hopefulness generally helps strengthen determination. But it's interesting that there are also cases where people act with tremendous determination in utterly hopeless situations: "Remember the Alamo!" etc...
Paul, I don't know if you are able to watch movies due to your health, but if you can I recommend the movie The Pursuit of Happiness with Will Smith. It is based on a true story about a single father who is determined to raise his son while he struggles to make ends meet. He keeps asking the son to have faith in him. At one point things are so bad, he and his son are homeless and spend the night sleeping on the floor of a public bathroom.
Many people would describe this young father's situation as utterly hopeless when against all sorts of things that go wrong for him the young man struggles to pull himself out of this abject poverty. Finally he succeeds and in a big way. He had tremendous determination.
If you can't watch the movie, at least listen to it. It will give you increased respect for people who have tremendous determination in cases that look utterly hopeless.
So without watching the movie, I'm pretty much living the life! Around eighteen or nineteen hours of my day are useless - fully bedridden and unable to do anything from that position because I can't sit up in bed and my brachial nerves are too damaged to raise my arms to work from flat on my back. Much of the rest of my days is taken up dealing with home health aides and doing things to get by physically.
From what you have written in the past about your health, I know your activities are greatly curtailed due to your health problems. Given the way you describe it all, I can't imagine how you are able to function even in the most fundamental ways.
Due to your struggle and your tremendous determination to keep on keeping on in spite of your health problems, I count you as one of my heroes.
You remind me of the Dylan Thomas poem which has no title but begins with "Do not go gentle into that good night."
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