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I have an M.A. in religious studies from the University of Chicago Divinity School and an M.Ed. in counseling from the University of New Hampshire.
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Sunday, May 11, 2008Religion Talking in Its SleepAgitation and annoyance when others don’t share one’s beliefs is the surest sign, and not from above, of a hollowness to one’s convictions. It's a sign strikingly visible to others and yet not to the shrill and agitated themselves, almost as though it had been emblazoned across their foreheads while they slept like a kind of Mark of the Beast of Unexamined Doubt.
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35 Comments:
if you are convinced it lives,
if not you are lost.
but questioning your belief always strengthens it...
ghee
If, finally, it turns out to be a belief that one retains, then questioning it ends up having strengthened it - which may be what you were getting at...
GHEE, thanks -
MISTI: Do you think faith = belief? Are the two exact synonyms? Hmm... could be a good question for a post.
GG: Good point – it could be a broader generalization…
CODAKIZ: Wish I knew what a Daruma doll is. If I’d been able to leave the house in the last four years, maybe that would help… Like a Cabbage Patch doll? I think those were top heavy…
I think maybe I use ellipses too much on comments threads… they’re sort of addictive…
TESS: Yes, I think the experiential generally gets downplayed in western religion; and I have read things from the far right that treat this aspect as invalid. I think the mainstream perspective in Christianity is not so much that it's invalid as that it’s less central or important than doctrine.
VISHESH: I see – you’re saying that for certain individuals, questioning their beliefs would necessarily result in strengthening them.
ENSO: The first distinction you cite is one that I develop in my book; the second, I haven’t thought of.
My first reaction to the second is that I have trouble seeing how it would make literal sense as an experience – but it may well have figurative meaning. Did you have anything particular in mind? Maybe you could post on that one! (If you have a blog... If you do, please leave your URL sometime so I can find it.)
For true convictions (i.e. beliefs or faith) to be evidenced as strongly held, one must not be agitated by questioning or the expression that one's beliefs are not shared by another?
I almost think, for a person to become agitated or annoyed by this, it is evidence of a person's shallowness or hollowness of personal character, rather than their beliefs. Or, does it go to say that the beliefs of one whose character is shallow naturally follows suit?
such a satisfying way of leaving the end dangling.... not question or assertion.... more conversational ...
;-)
HAYDEN: Wow – I think you hit the nail on the head. That’s it – ellipses make sentences more – conversational. Still – don’t you think that kind of thing can be, I don’t know – overdone? I’m pretty sure that I’ve been overdoing it - kind of - with the ellipses.
VISHESH, PS: Is it possible to know oneself as someone whose beliefs are invariably strengthened when one questions them and also know that one is a rigorous critic of one’s own beliefs?
I guess there is no need to point out who the most obvious & worst 'offendees' are these days...
didn't think so.
TIMJAMZ: Exactly.
There can be a legitimate reason to be angry about being presented with what one sees as a lie. To honor Truth demands this at times. Take for example someone teaching creationism as science in a public school biology class. People will get made at this and rightfully so. To respect truth demands this. I try not to do comparative religion because of this. To put the deposit of faith that I received from Christ on the same level as other religions -to be compared- just makes a mockery of the faith. It's like comparing science with alchemy from my perspective. Comparative religion in a real way makes you comparatively religious now matter what revelation you hold too.
It can just get old as well. To be told every other day, “have you taken Jesus as your personal lord and savior” can be annoying. I don't blame someone who is constantly asked this in getting mad. Sometimes one just needs respite to live ones faith without always having to question ones own premises. It's like never being able to start a race because someone is always challenging that you left before the gun went off.
The anger response comes just as much from the left as from the right. It's just human nature. I would suggest that the reason that this has been your experience is because you don't challenge left leaning premises as much. Go challenged someone one the left about global warming, abortion, and evolution and see how angry they can get. I have been at the receiving end of this type of anger from both sides.
a light leads,
the origin of the light,
is unknown yet known.
to know the origin,
we need to ask-
once asked ,one
tries to understand his light.
even if it leads to a fight,
to internal strife,the power,
which leads will restore the might,
which a person has in his faith.
for the question to come,
it takes a long time,
for it is inspired by
experience and obedience.
obedience to the spirit of rebellion,
obedience to the spirit of
union,
experience of the soul,
experience of the body.
the purpose of a question,
is not to hasten
but to tighten
one's trust in self-light.
the pilgrimage has crossroads,
it also has friends and foes,
each an angel or devil,
propose questions.
once a question is done with,
the answer's spirit,
gives strength and valour
and belief in the path.
My experiences don't support the idea of the faith-weakening effects of studying other religions. I attended the U of Chicago divinity school, where faculty members are not only scholars, but Christian ministers representing a wide variety of denominations - I believe this is also the case at most other divinity schools in the US with strong academic reputations.
I saw no signs that my professors’ knowledge of non-Christian faiths weakened theirs. Also, the student body consisted mainly of committed Christians, with many students preparing for the ministry.
I think you’re right – that at some point, faith becomes a practice and a commitment. However, an interest in other religions doesn’t preclude this. And the more that people understand the traditions of others, the harder it is to demonize them.
It could be, as you say, that as you go to the far left of the spectrum, as well as the far right, there’s more of a tendency to respond to the viewpoints of others with rancor.
VISHESH: I get a sense from your words, overall, that in your view experience is just as integral and important to spiritual life as belief. That's my perspective too.
“the purpose of a question,
is not to hasten
but to tighten
one's trust in self-light.”
I can see (and have experienced) how this may be recognized in retrospect and when “self-light” is not misconstrued as ego-identity. I know you’re not misconstruing it that way, but I mention this for readers who might otherwise necessarily read “self-light” as the opposite of something like, say, “divine light.”
However, at the time we ask the question, can we be said to honestly question our beliefs if our questions have any purpose – however laudable – outside of whether our beliefs appear to be true?
As for getting upset about one's beliefs being qustioned, a couple of the most upset people I've noticed recently have been the athesits Christopher Hutchins and Richard Dawkins :)
Thanks for the link - looks like it supports my reply to CUA as follows:
CURE OF ARS: Your outlook strikes me as consistent with that of the majority of people who seriously study religion. Divinity school means that you’re going for your master’s or doctorate, with a good chance you’re headed for the ministry. Students at that level usually have strong existing faith commitments. Such settings have the advantage of fostering understanding and respect for the traditions of others.
LIARA: As far as literal sleep goes and dreaming in particular, I agree that it’s underrated and under-utilized. Dreams can be profound and provide important insight and direction.
I can affirm and respect the truth that is in other traditions. I respect Muslims prayer to the one true God. I respect Mormons focus on family. I am free to respect these truths because I am grounded in my own faith tradition. These truths have there source in Christ and to pay them respect is to pay Christ respect. But I think this line of reasoning goes only one direction. You have to be first be grounded. Let me give an example of how I see this. It's like learning to play classical music as a child which can prepare her to play jazz as an adult. But flipping this around doesn't really work.
and in life ...certain things act as an catalyst to make us behave in certain ways...and since experience is the food...the other factors become the ingredients...
For example, if a Christian and a Muslim were to approach each other with “Jesus is the Christ” and “Muhammad is the Seal of the Prophets,” with each insisting on trying to convince the other of what he or she viewed as a central religious truth before proceeding further, the conversation couldn’t go anywhere – couldn’t develop into a conversation at all.
But instead of focusing on areas of disagreement that can’t be reconciled, it’s possible to set them aside just for purposes of discussion. This allows people to go on to learn further details about each others’ traditions and perspectives, develop a clearer understanding of the basis for the differences, and see areas of common ground.
VISHESH: I see how experiences work as catalysts for further efforts. And I view spiritual and religious truth as being at least as much about growing experientially and consciously in ways that lead us to do good in the world as it is about statements concerning what one believes.
However, if we’re still talking about doctrine or belief, it seems to me that questioning a belief doesn’t have the same sort of potential for open-ended growth. Of course, a person, once he or she has accepted a belief as true, can then grow in his or her understanding of its implications. But questioning the belief itself and to begin with seems to me to be a matter of looking at whether or not it appears in some sense fact or reality-based. And to decide ahead of time that questioning a given belief in this manner will necessarily result in affirming it would be tendentious, wouldn’t it?
So when does the rest of the world finally catch up, use the word football correctly, and forget about the metric system?
BETH, thanks for stopping by -
and yes when you first question,you will rebel...that is the tendency...so if you live in an environment which supports an i dea,you will rebel more...and you cannot rebel without answering your self as to why you are doing that...and if you live in a con environment...well whatever other thing you take up,you will be tempted to rebel that too...and finally you will accept something...
but truthfully speaking you cannot find anything until you are lost...so i feel its important for each one to go astray in someway...
What you say here I mainly agree with, but what I asked in my previous comment is whether it’s possible to genuinely question the veracity of one’s beliefs if one’s starting premise is that questioning them will lead to reaffirming them.
VISHESH: I can see that, imagine it – creating another character who you give equal standing with yourself in debate, so to speak. Sounds like for you, this has the same goal and result as the approach I've used: allowing you to critically examine your own positions, and in the process, find out some things that you wouldn’t have otherwise.
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