Saturday, June 28, 2008

Spiritually Present/Absent

Where no “you’’ exists apart from where you take your place in the wide world, there is no one to be offended and no one to be afraid.

16 Comments:

Blogger Vincent said...
Hi Paul, I find this a little short: not clear what the thought is here. If you could expand a little?
1:14 AM  

Blogger timjamz said...
If I got it right, I think the meaning is that we are all one... apart from the distinctions we contrive to the contrary. If so, a agree.
2:20 AM  

Blogger Paul said...
VINCENT and TIMJAMZ: You're both right - that is, this needs clarification and it does involve a sense of unity.

I'm trying to speak here about experiencing our identity differently. In writing the book, I found this the most difficult thing to put words to. In a way, I spend the whole book working into it.

Maybe another way to briefly suggest it is to point to how we literally and in fact come into being and continue to exist integrally to being itself or Being itself - a larger or greater context.

It's possible to come to experience this fact of nature as our primary identity.
8:55 PM  

Blogger vishesh said...
aye aye sire :) but it quite tough...but then if you go to skl now days where swearing can be heard more than the mantras they teach,then you get used to it :)
2:31 AM  

Blogger Paul said...
VISHESH: I think it might help if I knew what skl is - but then I think it might not, lol...

You young people...
11:09 AM  

Blogger MY THOUGHTS!! said...
few words but deep meaning.........that is soo you :P

we are a part of big picture. we in no circumstances can truly define it all alone......
but that does not mean that we are not valuable....... the day we undertsand that everyone is important and learn to respect things in their natural form we would truly be happy and that happiness will bring us security....... and that day we will love and live :)
1:42 PM  

Blogger crystal said...
But alos no one to be happy. If there's no differentiation then there can be no relationships.
1:54 PM  

Blogger Paul said...
MY THOUGHTS and CRYSTAL: I'm thinking it may be that, to different degrees, each of you sees a tension between being an individual on the one hand; and increasingly identifying, as one's life goes on, with the One in whom we live and move and have our being - to paraphrase St. Paul, and whether one conceives of this greatest context of our lives as God or being itself.

Although I understand that the language needed to address this seems to suggest a tension or even contradiction between these two, I don't think that such a contradiction exists experientially - and that in fact, "losing our lives to find them" leaves us better and not less prepared to "love others and love God."

Maybe it's just that no one's even in remote danger of completely misplacing their ego here in life as we know it! The problem, it seems to me, is in the opposite direction - that so many people so narrowly identify with selfish interests that we've become a real danger to ourselves as a species.
2:46 PM  

Blogger Vincent said...
Paul, I think vishesh may have been writing as in a txt msg and meaning "school".

I am very excited about the concept of unity, or as you see of reading in your book about seeing our identity differently.

Though increasingly I feel connected to all of creation in One Love, I have not reached, and don't expect to reach (don't even want to reach) a state where there is no one to be offended and no one to be afraid. It sounds too much like Nirvana or brain-death. For then surely there would be no one to be joyful either.

One day there will be no "I". As long as there is "I" there is my body, and I have cause to feel fear because fear is the message sent to the "I" by the antennae of the body for its own protection.
5:00 AM  

Blogger Paul said...
VINCENT: I so much look forward to you and others who've expressed interest reading it. A book's a much better place to coherently develop thoughts along these lines.

For now, I think my reply to My Thoughts and Crystal pretty well applies. On fear, I'd add that I don't think there's any danger of completely losing that either, but that it can be felt with much less depth and agitation.

In general, I'd say that's what it's like - that the egoistic self isn't experienced as unreal or gone, but it becomes less of a reality than the experience of the self-in-context, so to speak.
12:04 AM  

Blogger pb said...
What you are expressing is what the Buddha discovered 2500 years ago when he became enlightened. Its paradoxical, to be sure. But I believe it's true. The less attachment we have to the self, which is in fact an illusion, the more opportunity we have to experience lasting joy and contentment.
1:14 AM  

Blogger Paul said...
PB: Yes - including the joy of connecting more authentically with others. I think something in the language of individuation and the language of of monistic experience (I like that term - from William James - much better than "mystical" experience) suggests a contradiction that in fact is only verbal.
2:02 PM  

Blogger Hayden said...
yes, if I understood then this is about letting go of ego... letting it move aside and stop blocking the view. ??
12:03 AM  

Blogger Paul said...
HAYDEN: Exactly.
9:58 AM  

Blogger firebird said...
I like the way you say that--"taking your place in the wide world"--just the right note of arbitrariness, as if it were only a matter of choice where we come down and who we are at the moment.

Of course that's always what it is--our choice and our moment.
7:36 PM  

Blogger Paul said...
FIREBIRD: I hadn't thought of it that way - and you make me realize part of the reason I phrased it like I did may have been to avoid the issue of free choice vs. determinism. It can't be demonstrated either way and doesn't figure prominently in my thinking, although a bit...

Hmm... you're getting the book... I should wait till you've read, and then my view on this would be easier to talk about.
9:50 AM  

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